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CMPunk
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Post Posted: 05/22/18 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That Rockies hat is terrible.
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wallyhopp
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Post Posted: 05/22/18 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here's a higher quality photo of the one I posted above of the OG PR hat (not my photo)
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hHq7U2KycNg/Wk8DKt2lGqI/AAAAAAAAs3g/rkdJDf7kpiYm0D7mIKhCGlGgxKlzG3IhQCLcBGAs/s1600/FullSizeRender.jpg

You basically had the purple mountain as vertical stitching, and the PR purple as a horizontal stitching to create some layering. Then for the rose, we see actual leaf layers, as well as the bottom of the rose showing multi directional stitching. The actual rose detail features some purple stitching to create some layering.

Dont even begin to tell me about the silver border on the letters. Looks like a earthquake hit the sewing machine when it was time for the letters. The upper silver mountain border is sloppy, as is the snowy rock elements. Just a big ol dumpster fire. And i'm not even a fan, nor a professional lol. Casually looking at something for 5 minutes to notice mistakes and for them to want to sell it for $40. It's gotta be one of the worst logo creations I have ever seen

Just for fun, i overlayed the two (at my best estimate in comparing the new size vs. the old size) and created a gif. It speaks for itself
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Hat Guru
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Post Posted: 05/22/18 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That is what NE produces when provided with both photos of the OG and proper dimensions.

You win some and you lose some with them.
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MrRedLegs
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Post Posted: 05/22/18 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hat Guru wrote:
That is what NE produces when provided with both photos of the OG and proper dimensions.

You win some and you lose some with them.


So I guess youíre saying that we should cut Lids some slack for the errors in their Retro Classics and some other lines? Itís all NEís fault?
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Fittedguy16
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Joined: 04 Oct 2016
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Post Posted: 05/23/18 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
MrRedLegs wrote:
Hat Guru wrote:
That is what NE produces when provided with both photos of the OG and proper dimensions.

You win some and you lose some with them.


So I guess youíre saying that we should cut Lids some slack for the errors in their Retro Classics and some other lines? Itís all NEís fault?

1 hat here or there, NEís fault. Majority of the caps messed up on several separate releases? Nah not NEís fault, Lids Markie has to wear that one. Simple. Sad to see people go at one of the few Hat retailerís providing to a market that really isnít a highly profitable one. Especially when itís your local mom and pop (HatClub) taking on the Walmart of hat dealers (Lids). You all can buy, and not buy what you please, but damn HC has been my go to for a long time because they give a damn about what collectors actually want. Guaranteed HatClub will take every course of action to have another run made and correct the size and logo imperfections to the best of their ability.....IE: Kinston Indians BP feather logo. Another glorious NE catastrophe that has since been re-done and corrected by HC.
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wallyhopp
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Joined: 15 Mar 2015
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Post Posted: 05/23/18 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Definitely don't want to make it seem like we're bagging on the good guys. But it can seem that way with a bit of negativity. I think open non lovefest talks can be healthy though.

Fitted guy16. You're right. I don't want to place lids' miscues in the same breath as HC. That's not fair. I've posted in-depth examples of the retro classic mistakes.
HC is definitely batting a much higher % than lids. The retro classic line is maybe 10% accurate, while HC may be 80-90% accurate. I guess posting the one big mistake by Hc can be seen as being picked on.

Didn't they revise the Mariners tbtc cap to have the white baseball after some folks said something about the maroon?

In some sense it's maddening that NE didn't just use the CR rockies logo size for PR and throw in a mountain and rose. I know they're a niche and mom and pop. But sometimes if you aren't happy with a design, dump it and don't release it for $40. It's still being sold as an exclusive in your companies name.

A logo miscue can also just stump a lot of people. HC/lids added the under helmet yellow to the recent dukes cap, which prior to that for 10-15 plus years has used the same template (which had white). It's a pretty obscure fix there. Yet the PR mistakes seem much more obvious. Maybe it's our own fault we hold HC to a higher standard. Lids is a lost cause.

I've been a monthly customer of HC so far in 2018 so they are doing something right. I'll continue buying and posting both the good and bad of everything
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Hat Guru
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Post Posted: 05/23/18 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
MrRedLegs wrote:
Hat Guru wrote:
That is what NE produces when provided with both photos of the OG and proper dimensions.

You win some and you lose some with them.


So I guess youíre saying that we should cut Lids some slack for the errors in their Retro Classics and some other lines? Itís all NEís fault?


When you can't get the LA Dodgers colour correct you don't deserve any slack being cut.
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MrRedLegs
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Post Posted: 05/23/18 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hat Guru wrote:
MrRedLegs wrote:
Hat Guru wrote:
That is what NE produces when provided with both photos of the OG and proper dimensions.

You win some and you lose some with them.


So I guess youíre saying that we should cut Lids some slack for the errors in their Retro Classics and some other lines? Itís all NEís fault?


When you can't get the LA Dodgers colour correct you don't deserve any slack being cut.


Look, I love HC and how those guys approach their business with an eye toward detail and the appetite of the avid hat collector. And yes, Lids is the evil corporate behemoth that is sloppy and uncaring toward its true customer base.

But, if you're a boutique retailer and charging customers a peak price for a "luxury" baseball hat (I still can't believe I shell out 40 bucks consistently for a baseball hat), then don't drop a "flawed" product on the shelves and point fingers at the manufacturer. Either admit that the product is flawed and knock off 20-50%, or eat the cost of the product and don't put it out. A skilled chef who knows he screwed up a dish doesn't send it out to the table for consumption.

Just my two cents, which is worth less than that!
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baby dhibs
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Post Posted: 05/23/18 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
When HC has a cap that's wrong, it's "NE/MLB Properties messed it up." When Lids has a cap that's wrong, it's "Lids are morons."

When HC doesn't carry caps for half the league it's "business needs." When Lids doesn't carry 7 7/8, "Lids is evil."

I don't have a dog in this fight, I haven't regularly bought caps in like four years. I get it, HC is the underdog and clearly "gets it" more, but the bias around here is really ridiculous.
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Gadm
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Post Posted: 05/23/18 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Biggest issue for me is that HC's Customer Service has been very bad lately, and communication with them has been non-existent. They simply stopped answering like before.
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Hat Guru
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Post Posted: 05/23/18 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
MrRedLegs wrote:
Hat Guru wrote:
MrRedLegs wrote:
Hat Guru wrote:
That is what NE produces when provided with both photos of the OG and proper dimensions.

You win some and you lose some with them.


So I guess youíre saying that we should cut Lids some slack for the errors in their Retro Classics and some other lines? Itís all NEís fault?


When you can't get the LA Dodgers colour correct you don't deserve any slack being cut.


Look, I love HC and how those guys approach their business with an eye toward detail and the appetite of the avid hat collector. And yes, Lids is the evil corporate behemoth that is sloppy and uncaring toward its true customer base.

But, if you're a boutique retailer and charging customers a peak price for a "luxury" baseball hat (I still can't believe I shell out 40 bucks consistently for a baseball hat), then don't drop a "flawed" product on the shelves and point fingers at the manufacturer. Either admit that the product is flawed and knock off 20-50%, or eat the cost of the product and don't put it out. A skilled chef who knows he screwed up a dish doesn't send it out to the table for consumption.

Just my two cents, which is worth less than that!


Or you can just pass on the product and wait for something more to your liking.

The economics of retail and specifically hats don't allow it to work that way and the lights to necessarily stay on.

There are a wide array of customers out there who buy hats for a variety of reasons, just as their are those who dine at places for a variety of reasons. There will be those who will buy this hat and there will be those that don't. There will be those that buy the next hat and there will be those that don't. On the aggregate you hope that the former group remains consistently larger than the latter.
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Hat Guru
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Post Posted: 05/23/18 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
baby dhibs wrote:
When HC has a cap that's wrong, it's "NE/MLB Properties messed it up." When Lids has a cap that's wrong, it's "Lids are morons."

When HC doesn't carry caps for half the league it's "business needs." When Lids doesn't carry 7 7/8, "Lids is evil."

I don't have a dog in this fight, I haven't regularly bought caps in like four years. I get it, HC is the underdog and clearly "gets it" more, but the bias around here is really ridiculous.


There's a bias because both retailers have earned a reputation, that's generally how it works.

You walk home each day and there are two paths; one path is a popular spot for animals to crap all over and the other isn't. You probably develop a bias as to which path to walk home.
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MrRedLegs
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Post Posted: 05/23/18 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hat Guru wrote:
MrRedLegs wrote:
Hat Guru wrote:
MrRedLegs wrote:
Hat Guru wrote:
That is what NE produces when provided with both photos of the OG and proper dimensions.

You win some and you lose some with them.


So I guess youíre saying that we should cut Lids some slack for the errors in their Retro Classics and some other lines? Itís all NEís fault?


When you can't get the LA Dodgers colour correct you don't deserve any slack being cut.


Look, I love HC and how those guys approach their business with an eye toward detail and the appetite of the avid hat collector. And yes, Lids is the evil corporate behemoth that is sloppy and uncaring toward its true customer base.

But, if you're a boutique retailer and charging customers a peak price for a "luxury" baseball hat (I still can't believe I shell out 40 bucks consistently for a baseball hat), then don't drop a "flawed" product on the shelves and point fingers at the manufacturer. Either admit that the product is flawed and knock off 20-50%, or eat the cost of the product and don't put it out. A skilled chef who knows he screwed up a dish doesn't send it out to the table for consumption.

Just my two cents, which is worth less than that!


Or you can just pass on the product and wait for something more to your liking.

The economics of retail and specifically hats don't allow it to work that way and the lights to necessarily stay on.

There are a wide array of customers out there who buy hats for a variety of reasons, just as their are those who dine at places for a variety of reasons. There will be those who will buy this hat and there will be those that don't. There will be those that buy the next hat and there will be those that don't. On the aggregate you hope that the former group remains consistently larger than the latter.



I can't dispute this. I don't know the financial numbers, so I'll concede this point to you, Guru.

As for other comments, HC gets a lot of love on this blog because the company seems to be trying hard to cater to cap collectors, listen to their desires, and to sell a quality product. I'd just suggest that HC should work especially hard to make sure the product IS accurate and the hats are high quality. It diminishes the company's reputation when things fall short.

I know that's a tall order, and maybe even near impossible, in this era of foreign-made goods and companies like NE, which put more emphasis on marketing than manufacturing quality.
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Hat Guru
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Post Posted: 05/23/18 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
MrRedLegs wrote:
Hat Guru wrote:
MrRedLegs wrote:
Hat Guru wrote:
MrRedLegs wrote:
Hat Guru wrote:
That is what NE produces when provided with both photos of the OG and proper dimensions.

You win some and you lose some with them.


So I guess youíre saying that we should cut Lids some slack for the errors in their Retro Classics and some other lines? Itís all NEís fault?


When you can't get the LA Dodgers colour correct you don't deserve any slack being cut.


Look, I love HC and how those guys approach their business with an eye toward detail and the appetite of the avid hat collector. And yes, Lids is the evil corporate behemoth that is sloppy and uncaring toward its true customer base.

But, if you're a boutique retailer and charging customers a peak price for a "luxury" baseball hat (I still can't believe I shell out 40 bucks consistently for a baseball hat), then don't drop a "flawed" product on the shelves and point fingers at the manufacturer. Either admit that the product is flawed and knock off 20-50%, or eat the cost of the product and don't put it out. A skilled chef who knows he screwed up a dish doesn't send it out to the table for consumption.

Just my two cents, which is worth less than that!


Or you can just pass on the product and wait for something more to your liking.

The economics of retail and specifically hats don't allow it to work that way and the lights to necessarily stay on.

There are a wide array of customers out there who buy hats for a variety of reasons, just as their are those who dine at places for a variety of reasons. There will be those who will buy this hat and there will be those that don't. There will be those that buy the next hat and there will be those that don't. On the aggregate you hope that the former group remains consistently larger than the latter.



I can't dispute this. I don't know the financial numbers, so I'll concede this point to you, Guru.

As for other comments, HC gets a lot of love on this blog because the company seems to be trying hard to cater to cap collectors, listen to their desires, and to sell a quality product. I'd just suggest that HC should work especially hard to make sure the product IS accurate and the hats are high quality. It diminishes the company's reputation when things fall short.

I know that's a tall order, and maybe even near impossible, in this era of foreign-made goods and companies like NE, which put more emphasis on marketing than manufacturing quality.


In a perfect world all these old defunct logos would exist properly vectored in a digital database at NE HQ. They don't.

Despite NE having produced many of the originals or even if they produced them recently often the logos no longer exists. Which means they have to be re-ceated, and that is done by NE. So in the instance of the PDX Rox pics of the OG were sent in along with proper measurements and specs (i.e. colours for the logo, hat, eyelets etc) at that point you get a proof that looks good. It's then sent to production to be vectored and a tape created for the machines at NE to stitch the logo. And this is after the wrangling that is done for hats to be produced domestically which despite assurances that they are slotted for Derby production still wind up traveling by boat and not solely by truck.

At this point you wait for the promised delivery date which can some times mean the hat shows weeks early (and payment is due and throws the budget off kilter) or is weeks late and throws revenue expectations off and you open the box and get this. Which to NE is a PDX Rox hat and they would like their money for it.

So I am not sure how HC can try harder in this scenario unless they fly out to Buffalo, stand over people and whip them endlessly. Which to be honest would be pointless given how much NE already whips their staff. Further, if after dozens and dozens of hats that were on point one comes along that is off your perception of HC's rep is going to diminish it may be worth taking a minute to re-evaluate your expectations.
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wallyhopp
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Post Posted: 05/23/18 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm a little confused by the blame. But maybe I'm looking too much into it.

Like does Company L submit designs to NE for approval, and they get back to them and say "this is what we have in our database. And this is what is approved for MLB usage or MiLB usage. We can't produce exactly what you wanted". At that point does Company L just say "whatever" and releases everything en mass? At that same time, does company H try to work with NE to gain a bit more accuracy when NE shows some resistance?

Can submitted designs just be flat out wrong and NE doesn't care enough to change or fix anything? Getting the LA blue wrong on the retro classic is a huge blunder. But wouldn't NE catch that on the approval phase of its' design?

I'm just confused how HC can have more accurate customs than say Lids or other retailers. A lot of the time, its as small as a flat batterman vs. bumpy with a border. At the end of the day, they are all NE products, and it's in their name.

I realize HC and Lids arent the only players out there. There has to be thousands of submitted designs, and some fall through the cracks. It's odd that most fall Lids way vs. HC. If it's all going through NE regardless, you'd think there would be more consistency
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